I saw the ad too and had a similar reaction. I can't imagine what possssed her to think that her supposed experience was something worth running on.

"...it's such an over-the-top orgy of fear-mongering that..."
- Dave Nalle

So is it worse than Karl Rove's and Dick Cheney's fear-mongering in the 2004 election?

------------------------------

"It sure isn't Hillary Clinton with her one term in the Senate or Obama with his half Senate term and handful of years in the state legislature."
- Dave Nalle

And how does that compare to GW Bush's permanent grounding in the Guards for skipping a mandatory physical, or his subsequent 2 years of Desertion?

Hillary picks the phone and quicly hung up and shout"Bill,tell your girlfriend never to call this number again!".IT'S 3AM!!!

REMF - It compares perfectly. PERFECTLY.

Dave, isn't Hillary's scorched earth strategy fun to watch? I always considered that to be Bill's trademark: get what you want, with no consideration of the collateral damage. But it turns out that Hillary is just as bad.

Like that muslimy picture of Obama. It must have come from McCain or Clinton. But McCain gets very little benefit from it now. It only makes sense if Clinton was banking on an anti-Arab reaction in Texas. (You know, Texans are all rubes anyway, even the Democrats.) She and her staff just don't care that the photo might damage Obama down the road.

Anyway, you reminded me of a bumper sticker in 1992 that read "A Heartbeat Away: Quayle or Gore?". I always thought it was a good argument for Bush.

"Maybe Hillary should call it a night" is pro-Obama biased media against Hillary Clinton that undermines the Democratic nomination process.

Hillary Clinton is about the future of America; she is the qualified, experienced, visionary leader America needs to make change real and restore America to prosperous times and restore our good standing in the world.

Cult leader Obama's attack ad gives an irrelevant response to Hillary Clinton's perfectly legitimate ad. His counter ad is no response to Hillary Clinton's legitimate ad.

Cult leader Obama's ad is slamming and disparaging the military that is serving in Iraq. Instead of hitting at Sen. Clinton with his misrepresentation on her about the Iraq war, he is bashing the patriotic military that is serving in Iraq. Cult leader Obama is unqualified to be commander in chief when he is skewering the military in Iraq with his false attacks on Sen. Clinton.

Cult leader Obama should do the patriotic thing and pull his unpatriotic ad that batters the military in Iraq.

Here's another take, Dave:

One the face of it, yes, you're right - it is a terrible ad.

...Or might it be extremely subtle and clever?

"It's 3 a.m... Who do you want answering the phone?"
"MOMMY!!!"

Hmm?

1. Clinton's campaign demonstrates and confirms why her type of "leadership" wouldn't take us very far toward finding solutions to our problems.

2. Bush has 7+ years of experience. Isn't helping us much, is it?

3. Yes, McCain has the most experience of any candidate. The trouble is, he's had it too long and nobody's real sure what he'd do with it if elected.

Big question: Who will McCain have as his running mate?

Who would be a heartbeat away from replacing this venerable man should the worse come to pass?

It is something that may effect the independent votes, should they decide to pass on whoever get the nod from the democratic electorate.

The cliche is 'each day I wake up and thank the lord that I am Welsh', but, I am so glad I am not American and I am so glad I don't have to put up with this shit. And, I fear it is coming our way.

God bless every fucking one of us.

"I always considered that to be Bill's trademark: get what you want, with no consideration of the collateral damage." - Baronius


Good point; I wonder if Hillary could also be considered collateral damage from her tenure as co-president?

I didn't appreciate the 2 for 1 approach taken during the Clinton administration, so much so, that I would really hate to see a repeat performance. The only value that I can see is that late-night monologues would continue to be entertaining.

Big question: Who will McCain have as his running mate?

Who would be a heartbeat away from replacing this venerable man should the worse come to pass?

I've been planning an artilcle on the possibilities.

I thinbk it comes down to which he needs more, someone to shore up the conservative base or someone to show his dedication to diversity.

Either way, I think it's an enormously important decision. It could well win him the election.

I'm pulling for J. C. Watts.

Dave

Brother Jeb

Dave,


I think that what we need to explore this campaign season is what does experience in Washing do for the nation?

Since this is going to be the message that will be over buzzed (no the point of meaninglessness), its important to look at what experience really means.

What role do staff and advisers play in a President's leadership?

What difference does experience make if one is not right for the time; if their manner or style is not what will lead the country to prosperity?

At the end of the day, we are talking about a position where one needs to be smarter than most people, able to communicate effectively, persuasive, a motivator and likable. The position itself comes with the clout that one needs to get people to perk up and listen when you speak. (Unfortunately our current President missed that notion and felt the need to tell everyone how important he was. Perhaps it was because he was lacking in all of the qualities that are listed above.)

What George Bush proves is that experience is not the criteria that we should be looking at, it is the person and their skill level.

#6 crat3...

Maybe I'm just dense, but could you explain to me exactly how an Obama ad that points out that he showed excellent judgment in opposing this war from the beginning is "disparaging" "bashing," or "skewering" "the patriotic military that is serving in Iraq."

And oh yeah, knock off that "cult leader" crap. That's just stupid.

Democrats will send Hillary a message on Tuesday:"Thanks, but no thanks." Obama will win in Texas and Vermont, win or be close in Ohio and he's even closing in on her in RI, a state that was supposed to be a lock for her. Hillary will have no choice but to step aside and support Obama. It'll be interesting to see how enthusiasm she and Bill can muster up
in supporting him after they invested so much in savaging him. Democrats, however, are figuring out that they need to wrap up this primary season so they can start to focus on the general election.

Troll: Brother Jeb

Yeah, wouldn't that be the kiss of death.

literally

Ironically you say this benefits McCain. I am suprised the MSN hasn't posted the ad from youtube that was posted in January by a youtube McCain supporter. It has plagiarism all over it. Check it out here and get this in the MSM immediately.

Perhaps the Obama campaign shouldn't have responded with another 3 am ad but could have had a huge effect by using this as an ad in response to the fear monger clinton.

8 years ago McCain may have been the best candidate for president and we probably would be better off domestically, financially and in foreign affairs. But the relentless W campaign half-destroyed McCain and he destroyed what remained by his acquiescent submission to the Republican Party. It was unwise to show such loyalty to an organization that had shown no loyalty to him.

The neocons, to achieve their goals, had to destroy McCain and his military record to elect the dummy they had fashioned. As a result they destroyed his 2008 platform. But they didn't care because they hoped to achieve all their goals by 2008 and leave town.

Missy,

That's pretty interesting. It sure looks like Clinton copied that first video for her ad. The question and the situation are the same, and even the time is almost the same (3:00am vs. 3:03am). You're right about the second video, too. It would make a great Obama ad.

"they hoped to achieve all their goals by 2008 and leave town"

And have, and will.

The original ad the Clinton 3am ad is based on is actually a Walter Mondale ad directed at Gary Hart in the 1984 election, and it set up pretty much the same scenario. When asked who they wanted manning the red phone between Mondale and Hart the voters resoundingly chose Ronald Reagan for a second term.

Dave

Voice Mail/Call Forwarding '08

Oh geez, knock it off with this 'quit now' crap...What a bunch of f-ing losers.

Yeah, that is no different than saying that Boise State should just walk off the field in the 3rd quarter against Oklahoma. Until it is mathematically impossible, STAY IN THE GAME!!!!

Geez, this loser mentality is showing what the USA is all about at this time in history. Losers. Geez, the Air Force just hands over a huge military contract to some French company, not our own Boeing? We are handing billions over to the French....

Obama using "hope" as a catch phrase? Give me a break! Hope is for suckers. "Take action" are the only words that apply to a democaracy!!!

The bottom line is this: CAN OBAMA BEAT McCAIN? NO. CAN CLINTON? OH YES SHE CAN.... in a landslide.

geezus USA!
DM

by the way, Hillary on Saturday Night Live last night was awesome. Talk about someone who is not too hung up!

Look people!!! Obama would get Obomba'd by McCain. Hillary would give McCain a run for his money and kick his rear end while he was running...

Get it straight USA!!! We are at a point in history where it is do or die. On a world level! Right now all I see out there is an idiot culture. Being run by idiots. Politics, corporations...look people, we better get our hands back on the wheel. We fell asleep and let someone else drive.

Isn't Hillary suddenly looking like a better choice? She is a tough bitch. Bill sure learned not to mess with her. And he was the toughest guy on the planet. And survived. But the USA hands it all over to a wimp, who took our country from trillions of dollars in surplus to that amount in debt.

AND HILLARY COULD BEAT McCAIN IN A CAGE DEATH MATCH. Wow, wouldn't that be quite a showdown on election day... Stretch pantssuit?

get a grip,
DM

"trillions of dollars in surplus"

Not even close.

"Hillary on Saturday Night Live last night was awesome."

I didn't see it, but aren't you getting tired of candidates on late-night shows? Even my man Huck bugged me when he was in a Conan O'Brien skit.

OK, trillions a bit of an exageration. Billions is the accurate term. Trillions in the hole is accurate.

TV? McCain was the TV dude leading in to this whole deal. He has done more late night TV than anyone else combined.

DM - Sounds about right. I didn't say it was a Democratic or Republican thing. It's just a thing I'm getting tired of.

The bottom line is this: CAN OBAMA BEAT McCAIN? NO. CAN CLINTON? OH YES SHE CAN.... in a landslide.

Keep hope alive, but every poll says the exact opposite

Dave

Douglas Mays said (#24): Oh geez, knock it off with this 'quit now' crap...What a bunch of f-ing losers.

First of all, feel free to include the u and the c and the k in the word "fucking." We're all grown-ups here.

I'm just curious...as a Clinton supporter, what scenario would have to occur for you to say that she should quit the race? Bill Clinton has said that she needs to win both Texas and Ohio on Tuesday to have a chance at winning the nomination. Others have said that she needs to win both states by wide margins. At the moment, both states are essentially dead even, with Obama surging.

If she was to lose both states, would you say that she should hang in there? Should she keep going, fighting tooth and nail for the superdelegates and trying to get the Michigan and Florida delegates to count for her? Should she take the fight all the way to the convention in Denver?

At what point does her personal ambition give way to the good of the party?

"every poll says the exact opposite"

What, that McCain is a winner over either of them?

Source?

Or just that Obama is a better bet against McCain than Clinton?

Ok, let me actually get my exagerations straight from comment #27. Deficit, I think we are floating at $200 billion (and growing fast) right now. When Bill left the White House we were about $30 billion on the plus side.

Anyway, I can be an ass sometimes... but hey, politics.

And the polls may say what they do. But they have not been too relliable this time around.

What, that McCain is a winner over either of them?

Source?

Or just that Obama is a better bet against McCain than Clinton?

He claimed that Hillary would beat Obama in a landslide in direct contradiction of all the polls. Nothing about McCain.

And the polls may say what they do. But they have not been too relliable this time around.

True. They have consistently underestimated how well Obama would do.

Dave

Dave, I still don't think America is ready for either a black president or a female one.

Much as I would like to see either of those two scenarios a reality, I just don't think it's on as Americans are unbelievably conservative deep down. I don't think it's largely down to racism or sexism, just an unwillingness to try anything different. Which means the Dems, running in a campaign they couldn't ordinarily have lost, have shot themselves in the foot here.

And from where I sit, Hillary looks like she's been rolled anyway in the primaries.

Nup, John McCain is a shoo-in for the White House.

I'll bet London to a brick on it.

We'll see, Stan, we'll see.

I agree that Hillary increasingly seems unelectable, but I don't think it's so much because she's a woman as it is because she's who she is and because of the baggage she carries, but most importantly because hers has so far been the most inept, poorly run political campaign this country has seen in about a century.

As for Obama's electability: he certainly has momentum now.

Come November, veremos. I think there's (now, Mar. 02), at least a 50-50 he can beat Mac.

Nup, John McCain is a shoo-in for the White House.

The Dems will win if they frame the election as "Do you really want a third Republican term?" George Bush has contaminated the Republican brand in the eyes of enough people to insure a Dem victory.

Again, something's happening in the world. It's 03:00 O'clock in the morning: OMG, another bimbo eruption? No, Bill's downstairs, I can hear the TV. Mrs. President, it's one of the Interns, it seems she's left an article of clothing. Just kidding ... it's the pizza delivery boy ... what should I do? You know, for some reason, I'm dressed in full business attire; like I always say, nothing's too good for the American people. Quick, put him on speaker; click, where the hell are you?

Seriously, all subliminal messages aside, anyone remember how fortunate we were, because the Cold War was over when the Clintons were in the White House? We were very lucky. Hillary Clinton's Texas ad isn't fear mongering, it's ludicrous. Although why any Texan would ever vote for a Clinton is beyond me. Being married to a draft dodger hardly qualifies one as a military expert either. Who do you want answering the phone?

Which might be why McCain is painting himself as a different kind of republican. It'll be close, but I'm convinced McCain can win as the elder-statesman-type" compared to Obama's relative inexeprience.

Hillary ... not in a million years, whhich in reality is quite sad as I think she'd make a good go of it. But in the eyes of America, who's running the show, she or Bill (and he's already has his go)?

Who's going to buy me a beer afterwards, when I can crow for years that I knew better than all you Yanks, who are just too close to it all to see the truth of it??

Obama WON'T win, and if the choice is him or McCain, McCain gets the nod.

The only genuine criteria for victory here is someone who ISN'T George W. Bush, republican or not.

I've always thought that if we put a woman or an African American in the White House it would be the Republicans not the Demos who did it. Might still be if McCain picks J. C. Watts as his VP.

Dave

With the exception of Alan Keyes, who (a) was persuaded to run again having not initially considered it and (b) is barking mad, I don't think there was a single African-American or female Republican who felt the political climate in the party was right for them to make a run.

That's not to say that the public mood is necessarily anti in either party. I remember a year or two ago when pundits were seriously floating the possibility of the 2008 race being Clinton vs. Rice.

Dave: "Might still be if McCain picks J. C. Watts as his VP".

Now you're talking. That's where the smart money should go. That would indeed be a milestone and a half.

I've noticed lots of little changes from the outside in the US over the past few decades ... could Colin Powell have done what he did 30 years back? Nup. Condi Rice? Nup.

Modern America is changing, but ever so slowly.

It's by degrees this stuff, isn't it? It's about convincing a deeply conservative America, bit by bit, that you don't have to be a white anglo-saxon (or northern Eurpoean) male to be president of the United States.

That is where the real problem lies IMO .. it's the tradition that's grown up around it (even African-Americans will tell you that), and as I said before, not racism or sexism.

Just the need to convince middle-America, softly-softly, that it's OK to try something else and the only real criteria in truth should be American citizenship.

Rice is as unappealing in her way as Clinton is. It may be a price thye pay for getting where they have gotten as women.

What I was suggesting was not a black president, but a black VP for McCain. J. C. Watts would be a good choice, IMO. Watts is only 50, a good friend of McCain, served 4 terms in Congress and has been a successful businessman and a very effective GOP fundraiser. He's also very personable, a great public speaker and not known for mincing words. He's an accomplished sports writer and commentator on both sports and politics and gets a lot of face time on CNN and other networks.

Rumor has it that Watts is on McCain's short list, and I think he's a great choice. He's the real version of what the left would like us to believe Obama is.

Here's your J. C. Watts quote for the day:

"America needs to be a place where all of us can feel a part of the American dream. But it will not happen by dividing us into racial groups. It will not happen by trying to turn the poor against the rich. It will not happen by asking Americans to accept what is immoral and wrong in the name of tolerance."

Dave

Obama WON'T win, and if the choice is him or McCain, McCain gets the nod.

Before you get carried away with your predictions, consider the following facts:

-50% of American voters are now registered Democrats, while only 36% are registered Republicans.

-Independents are tending to favor Democrats. In 2006, they favored Dems by 18%.

-Dems hold a majority of congressional seats.

-The Dems fundraising ability (especially Obama) has far outpaced the GOP.

-According to polls, nearly three-fourths of Americans think that the country is "on the wrong track."

-Turnout in Dem primaries has been much, much larger than in GOP primaries.

-The level of enthusiasm on the Dem side has vastly outpaced the GOP.

-Conservatives hate McCain.

-The age issue really does matter.

-George W. Bush has become an epithet.

Q: What d'you call a guy from Prague who goes on Big Brother?
A: A reality Czech.

I couldn't resist, but thanks for putting the race into focus, Doug.

"I couldn't resist"

You should have. You've damaged your rep irreparably.

Dreadful! I love it. I need some comic relief!

Dave, I realised you were talking VP, not Prez.

My contention is simply that Americans by nature aren't ready for anything too radical, and an African-American VP might not be that radical given the changes over the past decade.

All change is by degrees.

Despite what Doug Delong thinks.

Maybe I should offer my two cents and make some predicitons:

Clinton wins RI and OH
Obama wins VT

TX - whoever wins will not be more than 3 points.

If I had to guess (and I could be wrong), I'd say Clinton wins Texas by a very small margin.

The secret could be hispanics and Republicans. Yes Republicans!
Limbaugh and other talk show hosts are asking Republicans to go vote for Clinton so that this race continues.
This is great stuff !

So final tally:
Clinton 3
Obama 1

Interesting, Propa.

But how many of the sort of Republicans who are rabid enough to listen to Limbaugh are really going to be able to stomach voting for a Democrat - especially Hillary?

"Limbaugh and other talk show hosts are asking Republicans to go vote for Clinton so that this race continues.

Because everyone knows McCain can't beat Obama, and that NO ONE galvonizes the Republicans like a Clinton.

"The only genuine criteria for victory here is someone who ISN'T George W. Bush, republican or not."

Careful, about 99 percent of BC's conservatives voted for ol' Gee-Dub!!

All I can say is that we can bicker all we want, but this presidential campaign season is proving everyone wrong. Pollsters, pundits, armchair analysts. I will pay more attention to the words of Chillicothe, Ohio than any pundit.

I usually don't nail down my vote until about 3 days before the election. At this point, since we don't know who the final candidates are, I will just stand back an let the smoke clear on this whole deal.

I will say, Hillary has the chops. Face it, she is the most qualified person, by far, to run this country. Obama and McCain are basically 'intern' level when it comes to the presidential thing. I will throw that thought into the fire...

DM

But how many of the sort of Republicans who are rabid enough to listen to Limbaugh are really going to be able to stomach voting for a Democrat - especially Hillary?

So true.
But I think that's part of it - they need to take that foul taste in the mouth and vote for her. In the long term it is great news for the Republicans.
The longer the Democratic race goes on, the less time they have to prepare for the general elections. Plus the internal bickering and attacks give republicans the weapons in the general without having to work for them. And it also gives them an idea of what works and what doesnt.

Limbaugh had this to say:
""I want Hillary to stay in this...this is too good a soap opera," Limbaugh told fellow conservative talk-show host Laura Ingraham ...
I'm asking people to cross over, and if they can stomach it and I know it's a difficult thing to do, vote for Clinton," he also told Ingraham Friday. "But it will sustain this soap opera, and it's something I think we need and it'll be fun, too."

Limbaugh and other talk show hosts are asking Republicans to go vote for Clinton so that this race continues.

The longer Hilly and Obama go at each other hammer and tongs the more damage is done to both of them, with the result that by the time McCain faces either of them they'll be fatally tarnished.

IMO there's so much negative against both of them just based on their policy proposals that they are going to have a hell of a time beating McCain, but we'll see. Once the primaries are over I imagine they'll do everything they can to avoid actually getting pinned down on the issues.

Dave

Yep.
They are already so far to the left on NAFTA (and hence free trade) and Iraq (complete failure to recognize the effects of the surge) that it is going to be very hard to come back to reality when the general campaign starts.
Flip flop's gonna make a comeback!

"I will say, Hillary has the chops. Face it, she is the most qualified person, by far, to run this country. Obama and McCain are basically 'intern' level when it comes to the presidential thing. I will throw that thought into the fire..."

You're kidding, right?

What experience does Hillary have? A term as NY Senator?

Being President is primarily a management job; Hillary has mismanaged her campaign from the start (it's easily the most inept campaign in the last century), while Obama's has run like a well oiled machine.

McCain has more time in the upper levels of the government than both of the Dems put together.

Besides, how much "experience" did George Washington have?

That experience argument is pure strawman...

Hillary has mismanaged her campaign from the start (it's easily the most inept campaign in the last century)

Ah, now there you're mistaken, Clav. You're forgetting the 1932 presidential campaign of Shlomo Jenkins, a Maine Democrat who was widely thought to have a lock on the nomination. Shlomo was a second-generation Patagonian Jewish immigrant of Welsh extraction who, more than any other candidate in recent history, embodied all the qualities a voter looked for in a president. He had the looks of a JFK, the campaign skills of a Karl Rove, the charisma of a Clinton and the ingratiating charm of half a dozen Reagans. He was a five-term senator who was repeatedly nominated by both the Democratic and Republican Parties in Maine because, according to a Historian, "he was such a damn nice chap".

He swept the primaries and went into the DNC with all the other candidates trailing far in his wake. It was then that he made a tactical blunder of such catastrophic and stupid proportions that it made Ambrose Burnside look like Julius Caesar. He stood up to make what was widely anticipated to be his acceptance speech - and announced that his first act as President would be to reintroduce prohibition.

Then, in a silence so deafening that Hitler could be distinctly heard farting in Berchtesgarten, Shlomo turned to his chief aide and - having apparently forgotten that the mike was still on - muttered, "That didn't go down too well. Thank God I didn't tell the story of how I singlehandedly caused the Wall Street Crash after that unfortunate accident with the Treasury Bond, the naked woman, the German spy and the particle accelerator."

The rest is history. Franklin Roosevelt became President that year and Jenkins was left to ponder what might have been until 1942, when at FDR's insistence he volunteered to take a ride on the first bomb to be dropped in the Doolittle Raid on Tokyo.

The George Washington argument is pure bull. For every George Washington I can point to 10 other failed presidents who failed because they had no experience.
Moreoever I personally find it offensive when Obama supporters compare him to Washington and Lincoln and other great and incomparable figures in American history.
I know Obama supporters have to rationalize his empty resume somehow but at least come up with something less ridiculous.

"I will say, Hillary has the chops. Face it, she is the most qualified person, by far, to run this country."

She can't even get her husband to keep his pecker in his pants around other women, how's she supposed to run the country?

"Obama and McCain are basically 'intern' level when it comes to the presidential thing."

And speaking of interns, I wonder who Monica's voting for?

"IMO there's so much negative against both of them just based on their policy proposals"

What? They won't make you richer? The problem here, Dave, is that you don't give a fuck for anything beyond your stock portfolio.

GWB was great for you, and a disaster for America. But that's totally cool, right?

According to a Nobel Prize winning economist, the Iraq war is going to cost the USA over 3 TRILLION dollars by the time we get done paying for it, and that's not even taking into account where our country and its economy could have been if we had invested this sum as opposed to wasting it on a worthless invasion precipitated by lies and fake "intelligence" in order, ultimately, to steal billions of taxpayer dollars and drive up the price of oil.

You smile because your stocks went up.

ANYTHING Senator Obama or Clinton proposes would be a negative compared to that, right Dave?

You can write your bullshit, but America isn't buying it. All you and Rush and the rest of the neocon silver spoon fed assholes can do is try to lie and cheat your way out of a landslide defeat this November.

I'm betting it won't happen. There's just too many of us who see you and your ilk for what you are.

And we're ready to call you on your bullshit propaganda.

"The George Washington argument is pure bull"

"Bull," huh?

Did he have any experience? Was he a good president?

And I wasn't comparing Obama to George Washington, I was using Washington as an example of a successful president who had no experience when he took office, nothing more, so don't try to infer things I didn't say.

"Moreoever I personally find it offensive when Obama supporters compare him to Washington and Lincoln and other great and incomparable figures in American history."

You've obviously mistaken me for someone who gives a shit about what you personally find offensive...

"And we're ready to call you on your bullshit propaganda."

And nine times out of ten when we do, it gets censored.

that's not even taking into account where our country and its economy could have been if we had invested this sum as opposed to wasting it on a worthless invasion

I can do one better. If we hadn't fought WWII, Korea and Vietnam and invested that money we'd all be millionaires now. Every American would be living a life of leisure.
Right? that's the idea? Don't spend on national security or wars just invest it all in the economy.
Nice.
I am glad people like you aren't or ever were incharge of securing the homeland and fighting terror and maniacal dictators or we'd all be speaking Japanese on the west coast and German on the east coast.

"For every George Washington I can point to 10 other failed presidents who failed because they had no experience."

Hillary has plenty of "experience" looking the other way when Bill was porking one of his fluzy girl friends...but what does that have to presidential credentials?

"Don't spend on national security or wars just invest it all in the economy. Nice. I am glad people like you aren't or ever were incharge of securing the homeland and fighting terror and maniacal dictators or we'd all be speaking Japanese on the west coast and German on the east coast."
- Anon

Unless you're writing from Iraq, just more bellicose conservative rhetoric.

"ANYTHING Senator Obama or Clinton proposes would be a negative compared to that, right Dave?"

Probably not, Bennett.

I expect to continue making money in the market no matter who's elected in November, and I imagine Dave does, too.

It's the easiest thing in the world to sell defense stocks and buy whatever Hillary or Obama are having the government spend money on.

I guarantee you, investors will still be smiling, because regardless of who's in power, there's always money to be made, even in down markets, if you know how.

Pharmas will probably be real good when the gov. starts buying meds by the ton for their newly insured citizens.

That's the beauty of the stock market, Bennett.

#61:
Oh I see! So let's make any state senator the President of the US and hope he turns out to be George Washington.
Great plan. I guess that's the 'Hope'.

I mean all that great experience discussing potholes should come in handy.

By the way, I figured you'd want to have a substantive discussion but I guess like a child when you run out of real arguments to support your claims you make personal attacks.

But fear not - I can't blame numbnuts like you for being frustrated in trying to defend your cult leader's empty resume. :)
But dont give up 'hope' - remember 'yes we can' figure out a way to rationlize!

#64 REMF:
I don't think Clinton has great credentials either but you have to agree that 8 years in the White house and 7 in the US Senate count for a little more than 6 years discussing parade routes and potholes in the IL state senate.

Anon sez "Don't spend on national security"

No, it's more like don't start wars that are pointless, as is the case here.

Germany attacked, well basically everyone in Europe, and Japan attacked Hawaii. So we responded.

When did Iraq attack us?

"By the way, I figured you'd want to have a substantive discussion but I guess like a child when you run out of real arguments to support your claims you make personal attacks."

Telling you I don't care what you find offensive is a personal attack???

What bubble do you live in? If I ever do attack you, you'll know it.

And Obama is not my "cult leader." I've never voted for a democrat for president.

The "lack of experience" argument is an empty one when you used as support for Hillary - she has no experience, either.

Unless you count overseeing the White House housekeeping staff as experience.

Clavos,

I've read your comments and have no problem with you or anyone else taking stock of the situation at hand, and investing wisely. What I object to is Dave trying to pass his bullshit off as fact.

Invest in pharma stocks (particularly Phiser, they make viagra) and anything else you think will turn your nest egg into big eggs. But don't try and tell me that Dave doesn't delight in spreading misinformation and distorted facts by the barrel full.

"If we hadn't fought WWII, Korea and Vietnam and invested that money we'd all be millionaires now."

Well, WWII was called for, but Vietnam was a waste of 58,000 lives. Even Gen. Douglas MacArthur (who I'm guessing had a little more military expertise than Anon) warned beforehand that we could "never win a guerilla-type war in Vietnam."

"Oh I see! So let's make any state senator the President of the US"

I believe Obama is a US Senator, just like Hillary, and for about as long. But, it's good you brought up Obama's experience as a state senator.

How many years was Hillary a atate senator? And in which state?

Propagandist:

Ask Jim Cooper about Hillary's "experience."

"But don't try and tell me that Dave doesn't delight in spreading misinformation and distorted facts by the barrel full."

Don't think I did, Bennett.

Did I?

In fact, ALL I mentioned was the stock market, right?

Just askin'

#59, REMF!!!! Hillary can't even keep Bill's pecker in his pants? what the hell does that have to do with running a country?

If you think that is criteria for Presidential material, get the hell out of MY country!!! Geez, are you who the pollsters are polling? No wonder they can't get it right.

Monica? I wonder how her handbag line is doing? She could be a spokesperson for Jenny Craig next.

DM

remf - the police action in Southeast Asia was a waste of 2 million lives give or take

@#77:

Almost as many as Pol Pot wasted...

#56, Clavos. Hillary has been IN the White House. As a resident. That is as hgh level you can be without being preident.

Look at her initiating of solutions to our failing health care systems while just hanging out in the White House.

blah, blah, she has the chops...

troll;
58,000 Americans, including one of my cousins and a couple school buddies.

"Hillary can't even keep Bill's pecker in his pants? what the hell does that have to do with running a country? If you think that is criteria for Presidential material, get the hell out of MY country!!!"

Ethics start at home, pard. But hey, if you want to condone adultery, that's your perogative.

"Hillary has been IN the White House. As a resident. That is as hgh level you can be without being preident."

I must admit that I'd vote for Laura Bush before Billary.

"Hillary has been IN the White House"

And if the next president needs someone to help with the WH flower arrangements, Hillary's his woman.

"she has the chops..."

Sure she does.

You can see it in how well her "health plan" was received back then.

Not to mention her handling of the White House travel staff controversy.

And of course, she's done a stellar job of managing her campaign so far.

She's a good investor, though. Turning $1,000 into $100,000 almost overnight is no mean feat.

Yep, she's got the chops, alright.

PORK chops, maybe.

"Monica? I wonder how her handbag line is doing? She could be a spokesperson for Jenny Craig next."

Or maybe Barack could get her endorsement...

"she has the chops..."

And the choppers.

I believe Obama is a US Senator, just like Hillary, and for about as long

At least get your facts right before making stupid statements.
Hillary has been in the Senate since 2000 (and relected in 2006) while Obama came along in 2004 and almost immidiately started planning to run for President.
So I'm not mathematician but I think she's been in the Senate 4 years longer than him.

"So I'm not mathematician but I think she's been in the Senate 4 years longer than him."


Than he...

You're absolutely right.

With a whole four more years as a senator she's waaaaaaaaaay more experienced than O-whats-his-name.

By the way, isn't his middle name Hussein? I can just imagine what THAT means!!!

He's a transvestite, too. There's a picture of him on the internet in African clothes.

Feh.

By the way, isn't his middle name Hussein? I can just imagine what THAT means!!!

It means Bad Things, of course, Clav! Just like Hillary's maiden name is Rodham! That's almost the same as Rodman!! That means that the second she gets in the White House she'll set up a basketball court in the Oval Office and start cross-dressing!!! Horrors!!!!

Back in the 60s and 70s in Australia, there was a certain tacky tendency to end the names of some biggish things with "O-rama", or a-rama.

You know, like "Bowl-O-rama" for the local 10-pin bowling alley.

I can't even pronounce Barack's surname without remembering this, and giggling at the absurdity of it all simply because it sounds so similar.

"Barack-O-bama", in the big 2008 "Vote-O-rama".

Sorry, I digress into childhood and youth ...

I realise this is quite serious-o-rama.

My god! This thread is really showing some really fucked up shit.

sexism: "and if the next president needs some help with the WH flower arrangements". Holy shit. Unblievable that such crap can come out of a USA mouth.

You want flower arrangements? Get a queer like Larry Craig.

visionless: "you can see it in how well her 'health plan' was received back then".
Hillary saw the problem and got something going to wake up the country. Me, as a pre-med student who also worked in a Class A ememrgency room (in the 70s) I saw it coming. I bagged the pre-med thing and found a different profession. Glad I did. All these years later our US government still can't get anything done in that department. You want to blame Hillary?

Loserism: "she has done a stellar job of managing her campaign so far". Well guess what, the game isn't over till the final tick of the clock. I have a feeling she is running it right. The New England Patriots did a great job of managing their season, but lost in the end. by the time this is all over, people are going to be so O'bama'd out, Hillary could be the only one left standing. Could be a good srategy. Didn't Ali call that 'rope a dope'? It may or may not work.

Bedwetterisms: Or the digging for any cheap, pointless excuse being used as some 'major point' in debate...

"Ethics start at home". Yeah, Bill kept his dick contained to home. Morons like Bush have to take his dick problems out on the world and start a war by shooting off penis shaped missles and exploding weapons to get off. Bill kept it at home with very little fall out. Nobody died. We have thousnds and thousands dead with the spooj of Bush.

Bill obviously is a much more together person. So is Hillary. She is a much more evolved human being than any other candidate.

OK, that is that for now,
DM

P.S. Dave, good timing on your article! we have one gnarly thread going!!!

ooopppsss... O'bama? is he Irish? I guess I am already Obama'd. I am tired of looking at his face on TV and magazines and newspapers. Geez, could you imagine how sick of his face the country would get if he was in office. Same with McCain, trying to be all cute with his witty retorts from Hollywood writers...

I can definately look at Hillary for 4 years. She actually has her own personality. You can count on her NOT being used as a puppet of government.

figure it out, people,
DM

"Get a queer like Larry Craig"

"Holy shit. Unblievable that such crap can come out of a USA mouth."

"I can definately look at Hillary for 4 years."

That's definitely more than Slick Willie was able to do, ie, Jennifer Flowers, Paula Jones, Monica Lewinsky, etc...

Clavos, you really don't get it, do you? Larry Craig is a queer. Fact.

A woman's job is in the home (help with flower arrangements) is pure outright SEXISM.

the 'ism' is the shit pouring out of whoevers mouth. Queer is pure fact.

Shit or fact, Clavos. you are showing signs of the bedwetter syndrome I speak of. fact....,

Let me add that there is nothing wrong with being a queer. It is the human behind it all that is the issue.

No, I am not gay. I love the women.....

"A woman's job is in the home (help with flower arrangements) is pure outright SEXISM."

Except for the fact that that is the traditional role of first ladies: overseeing the WH domestic staff in their daily duties and hostessing state dinners.

Purely ceremonial.

Accuse me of sexism all you want. I'm not a liberal.

I'm not a liberal.

Yes, Clav, you are.

Clavos. Traditional role??? What a fine ceremonial tradition. Oppression...what a fine example of the reality of the USA.

Time to quit faking ourselves out. McCain and Obama are a fake out. Hillary is the REAL DEAL.

Great. Starting to figure out what this 'change' hook phrase is all about? Hillary will bring us change. Obama or McCain will only deepen the status quo. They don't have the personal evolvement to even see a change.

McCain? he will run ths war on for a long time.
Obama? he has not really figured it all out yet. can't be learnin' on my time. The guy is prime target to become a puppet.
Hillary? One tough bitch, with a smile. Can't mess with her.

get it?

Doc,

You're blowin' my cover!!

You're welcome, Clav.

And thanks - I feel an article coming on.

Although if and when it appears, Dave will probably claim he's already written it.

You're the one who doesn't get it.

Of those three candidates, the one who is MOST of the Washington establishment is Hillary. She's the one LEAST likely to go against the grain.

Obama's a newcomer, and McCain has shown time and again that he's more than willing to be a maverick.

Douglas. Anyone can bring change. The hard thing is bringing change for the better. Things didn't evolve the way they are by happenstance. Improving on them is more challenge than you realize, though it's easy to make things worse.

Obama's a newcomer, and McCain has shown time and again that he's more than willing to be a maverick.

Of those two accurate descriptions I'd take the maverick over the newcomer, because the long-time maverick has proven that he can resist the corruption of the system, while the newcomer has nothing but unproven promises.

Dave

She's the least likely to go against the grain... Clavos, you really have no idea.

Here is how change works in modern politics. Obama or McCain are the newcomers to the WH. they are the most easily molded to the grain. Puppet is the term used above.

Hillary, she knows the terrain of the grain. She knows how to mold the grain to her liking. She can do that. The others can maverick all they want, but it is a tough job. Hillary probably is ahead of the game already in reshaping the grain. I'm sure she has her landmines planted already.

She is a Scorpio, you know. The sign of some of the greatest leaders this world has ever seen... she can see miles in advance what is happening.

onward!
DM

BTW Doc,

I hadn't seen that Wiki article before. It's pretty good; quite comprehensive.

Did you have a hand in it?

Nope. But it is a good overview.

Dave's the Wiki fiend around here. Maybe it was his handiwork.

On the subject of mavericks, I've always thought it rather amusing that the Dallas basketball team has that name*.

It's something of a contradiction in terms, wouldn't you say? I mean, how can you have a team of mavericks?



_{* And yes, before anyone chimes in, I am aware of the Texas-specific allusions of the name.}

"She is a Scorpio, you know. The sign of some of the greatest leaders this world has ever seen... she can see miles in advance what is happening."

Thanks for the insight into your political savvy...

Clavos. I knew that astrology one would get ya....

Just to set such a statement in perspective let me say that this is an idea often rejected as some sort of mystical myth type thing. Well, if you use what you read in some newpaper daily astrology column as your reference, well, yeah, who would understand that?

But, the Chinese have a good 10,000 years of information on the subject. You know that the moon has a profound effect on tidal action and women's cycles. Gravity. those big planets out there are massive gravity orbs.

It takes a lot of understanding out of big books of the science of the subject to understand the reality of the subject. If you make an opinion from your daily newspaper column, that is like reading a pamphlet on a subject and thinking you know everything.

Anyway, Scorpions are tough motherfuckers. Very visionary. And poor Bill, she whipped his ass more than anyone really knows. You don't be unfaithful to a Scorpion. the sting can be wicked. At the same time they understand. Quite a dicotomy.

And I say it about Hillary in a matter of fact way that does apply to the statistics of the history of world leaders. That is all. That is political savvy. A fact you did not know about the subject.

Anyway, what the hell. The results are neck and neck right now...We'll see after the smoke clears.

I've never touched the wiki on liberalism, but I think it's very good and I agree that the basic definition does apply to Clavos. If you want I can sneak his name in there for a few hours before someone catches me.

And Doug. You're practicing what is often known as 'doublethink'.

Dave

But, the Chinese have a good 10,000 years of information on the subject. You know that the moon has a profound effect on tidal action and women's cycles. Gravity. those big planets out there are massive gravity orbs.

It takes a lot of understanding out of big books of the science of the subject to understand the reality of the subject.

Douglas, I'd stop now before you get too deeply into trying to demonstrate the scientific evidence for astrology, because the actual science says the exact opposite.

Astrologers have been backpedalling in recent years and most have now abandoned the claim that it is a science.

I was hoping to reference an excellent article which, among other things, addresses the claims you made above. Unfortunately that site seems to be down at the moment and I want to make sure that it is the piece I'm thinking of before I link to it. I'll try again later.

Oh god. The whole 'science' arguement. You can't put it in a test tube? So what.

If you have information to analyse, call it a science. Period.

Why is the study of cultures and society called 'social science'?

Anyway, get off that anal concept. It is another case of 'outhinking the question'.

So, as my Canadian friends would say, 'take off'.

It looks close out there. As long as Hillary can pull off an Ohio win, that would be good.

Aren't I a pain in the ass? Kinda fun.

Doublethink? well maybe, but it is a world of a load of information to be processed. All of it or some of it plays into the final result. Depends how it is used.

Anyway, rock n roll dudes...

(Clavos- this isn't the thread for this but - my comment above was a reminder to REMF that many more folks than 58,000 Americans died in Vietnam...implying that imo nationalism blinds

what was the intension of your Pol Pot reference - ?)

Oh, let us not forget 'political science'.

Astrological science... that is totally legit as a science. The fact that anyone even wastes brain space trying to debate that point, geez.

Anyway, you know, I am NOT actually clashing sense with non-sense. As I said, Hillary is a Scorpio. A nature of the sign is the ability to plan for and see into things down the road and craft one's own reality.

Smart girl. Win Ohio was a focus. Good move. She knows that winning that state is a pre-cursor to winning the Presidency. All those analysts missed that one.

See how that seeming nonsense plays into the actual sense of the big picture?

As to the 'nonsense' of the astrological aspects, this might make sense to some of you. Ever tell an Aquarian what to do? Big mistake! Gee, how do I know that. I studied my astrological sciences a bit. Some of you who learned by experience know what I am talking about. Attention to detail is a crucial factor in succeeding.

Sense or nonsense? It really isn't doublethink, now that you doublethink about it. Let the smoke clear...

Oh, me being a Scorpio, i have been told that EVERYTHING i say or do has a purpose. Very true. No matter how seemingly absurd it may seem, the end result is not absurd. Look back on this thread 2 years from now. The doublethink you will find is not doublethink.

Anyway, WTF... I thnk Dreadful and I should find a soccer thread somewhere.

Go Hillary!
DM

One wonders how we've (humanity) managed to progress as far as we have in the sciences and technology when there's still so much ignorance floating around.

troll,

It had to do with two things:

1) The Domino Theory (which, in the end, proved to be more than a theory, IMO).

2) We lost (had we won, another 4M humans might still be alive).

I know what you are talking about and I take your point.

I was there...

Douglas,

What is your real point. Your abnormal adoration for Hillary is odd. She's only been a politician for a few years. Where is the undying love coming from?

The truth is that they are both new comers. I can't imagine anyone being that rabid over either of them.

What people really like about Obama, if truth be said, is that he is the LEAST like Bush of all of the candidates. The other two still display remnants of 80's political tactics. There is an entire generation that likes "simple and to the point". Hillary may have had an easier time had she been less hungry looking (80's). Fake effort or commitment is old ("I'm all over it"... despite the reality of the situation, EN-RON). People just want simple answers and simple, pragmatic solutions. Yappy show offs like Mitt are eye rolling. Hillary has a bit of that.

There is a new generation that is cynical or sober (depending on your perspective). Thinking that there are supermen (or women) out there is silly. We can investigate just about anything at home for ourselves. The time for the know-it-alls is over.

thanks for the response Clavos and I agree

for Doug's sake: serendipitous breaking news - released secrets papers reveal WWII was won thanks to the advice of an astrologist

Zedd, the real deal is that I am sick of the male mentality running the country. Katie Couric rocks also!!! You betcha, adoration for Hillary? sure, if it seems that way, whatever. I love your adoration of these men running....

troll, whoever else. The astrology thing? Hey, knowledge of such is a good instrument in analysing and understanding the person and personality. Any of those stupid enuf to think it is some magic answer to the whole deal is sure stupid. No, it is just a tiny element that does play a part in the whole picture of personality. How much of a part? depends on the situation. in Hillary's case, it just let's me know that the gal ain't milktoast.

so yeah, Obama is black, oh wow!! gee, we never have had a black President. So what! He still is a goddamn male...gender has more power over personality than race.

Tough gal, with a pleasent personality. she isn't uptight. The gal can deal and play hardball. She has, in the public eye, and has come out ahead.

I endorse her. I am not in favor of the others. My reasoning is posted in the above thread. You can enjoy your clusterfuck with your male favorites. We shall see who the winner is this November...

Clinton wins RI and OH
Obama wins VT
TX - whoever wins will not be more than 3 points.
So final tally:
Clinton 3
Obama 1


I will take credit for that prediction..thank you. ;)

Leave it to the Democrats to f**k things up as much as possible. Primary and Caucuses for Texas? What the hell?
Oh and Peurto Rico which isnt even represented in Congress has more delegates than KY, OR or WV.
How messed up is that?!

If you have information to analyse, call it a science. Period.

I analyse information from 7.30 to 5.00 every weekday. I don't call it science, I call it my job.

Is a stockbroker a scientist? Come on.

Here's the article I was talking about earlier. The site seems to have woken up now. It does a good job of explaining, in plain layman's language, why astrology is bunk. Enjoy.

So... an MLS team in Seattle, huh?

hhhmmm...Dreadman, yes, in certain definitions of the word, you are a sciencedude. You do analyse information for an end result. The difference being you are not analysing a long history of information, you are analysiing immediate information. But then, so would a chemical scientist preventing an explosion or something.

The problem with the information you linked to is it seems to be based on a God mentality or something. If astrology is approached with that headspace, you will never figure it out. It talks about moon gravity, you betcha. We have a sun sign, rising sign, moon sign. All very important in starting to understand that stuff. Astrology is very real. I really question the hypothesis of such studies and how they go about looking for what they think astrology is.

A million factors have an effect on the individual. I was raised how I was where I was, etc. I just have Scorpio poured into that mix. One's astrology is not the end all answer to everything. Anyone who thinks that is looking for God in all the wrong places. In that case I might as well say that there is no scientific proof of a God or anything. So that is bunk also, eh? Save this astrology talk for Elsa's articles or something.

LOOK, WE ARE GETTING WAY OFF THE SUBJECT!!!!! HILLARY JUST SHOWED SHE KNOWS WHAT SHE IS DOING. MISMANAGED CAMPAIGN? IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THAT NOW....her experience is showing. She knows how to play the game...Scorpio is a very resiliant sign (had to throw that in)...

WOW, go girl!!!

Oh yeah, we did get an MLS team hear in Seattle starting 2009. Drew Cary is part of the ownership group. Already enuf season tix have sold to outdraw a lot of the current MLS teams. Anyway...

DM

Oh, for those who ask 'what is my point', you will see as time goes on. You will find I wasn't 'doublethinking'. Abstract reasoning? well, yeah....But it was right about the end result. That is the bottom line.

OK, Dreadful, this will piss you off. Scorpio is said to be able to make sense of chaos. I guess that does require a form of doublethink.

It all comes down to I think Hillary can do the best job running our democracy, and representing this country.

Remember, democracy only works with the involvement of the people. Unfortunately we have become so complacent and just whining and complaining and sniveling. As a whole I don't see the people taking action. There are some interesting theories by very credible people on how close we came to a dictatorship under Bush.

Oh gosh. Today is over with. Hillary grabbed 2 big states and a tiny one. Hillary knows it is not time to say 'goodnight' as the title of this article suggests.

Is this thread over with? I'm exhausted.

goodnight,
DM

Two points:

"It all comes down to I think Hillary can do the best job running our democracy, and representing this country."

We are not a democracy.

She's still behind in delegates; she was expected to win TX and OH; she barely squeaked by.

OK, four points, not two.

The fat lady hain't sung yet.

"If you had gotten your GED and..."

Isn't that what moonraven used to tell you?

Clavos, yeah, we sure are not what we are suppossed to be. Democracy? Forget it. That whole concept has been so distorted. To the point of some form of communism? hhhmmm... break down this wall....

Ralph Nadar, may not even get a vote, but the platform will definately let him speak the reality of our country. If the Republican/Democratic system were a company doing business, they would be fined and indicted for unfair trade practices. That monopoly thing.

the fat lady has not sung. the weight challenged female vocalist does not sing until the last tick of the clock... Clinton won Ohio. Traditionally, if you win Ohio, you win the whole deal. one of those co-incident statistics, check it out.

Dreadful!!!!! Are you a scientist because you analyse numerical information? Well, yes, in certain ways. BUT, the difference between analyse and processing is the question.

I am exhausted. Hillary just wore me out yesterday! ssssshhhh! don't tell Bill. hehehe. I need coffee, and i just read my horoscope. It said "you will be run over by a SAAB with leaking transmission oil". But that hasn't happened. Shows that astrology is not real!!!!

The momentum has shifted to Hillary. Oh man, I love the sports analogy being used in this election. I would love to see John Madden cover the convention. "and Clinton comes out of the backfield and hits Obama. BOOM!"

Cripes...Dreadful, I'll just see you at the next soccer (futbol) match...

DM

Douglas, there's more to science than simply analysing information. A scientist starts with a hypothesis, tests it by examining the data, and based on the results either discards the hypothesis or promotes it to the status of a theory.

I don't have a hypothesis, just an exasperatingly detailed and occasionally ambiguous set of rules and regulations which I use to determine how much a client's housing subsidy should be. I'm not a scientist.

A lawyer also analyses information, with the help of another exasperatingly detailed and occasionally ambiguous set of rules and regulations. A lawyer does have a hypothesis, but discards any data that do not tend to support it. A lawyer is not a scientist.

A stockbroker also analyses information. A stockbroker does not work from a hypothesis, but from intuitive methods based on data which are highly variable and unstable. A stockbroker is not a scientist, but is probably closer to one in approach than most other non-scientists.

An astrologer also analyses information, using rules and regulations that could not be more detailed or ambiguous. An astrologer maintains a hypothesis despite the fact that the data do not support it. An astrologer is not a scientist.

And yes, a soccer coach analyses information too. He's not a scientist either.

"and Clinton comes out of the backfield and hits Obama. BOOM!"

When Mrs Thatcher was Prime Minister of Britain, many of us had these glorious mental images of her imposing compliance at Cabinet meetings by bashing dissenters into submission with her handbag...

"Clavos, yeah, we sure are not what we are suppossed to be. Democracy? Forget it."

Erm, no, son, we were never a democracy, nor were we ever intended to be.

We are a federal constitutional republic.

And clavos forgets to point out that 'democracy' is just a code word for mob rule and the tyrrany of demagogues.

Dave

What Dave said...

Dreadful, OK, from such a viewpoint, very true. Which poses the the question which I have been leading you to all along...

Does it have to be a 'science' to actually exist in reality?

Anyway, we are way off base in this thread. Didn't we get in trouble before for hijacking a thread?

Oh shit, Chelsea vs. Olympiacos is on ESPN2 right now, got to jump....

Geez, then the Clinton vs. Obama death match will start up again.... (we need John Madden for this one...)

kickoff,
DM

Dave, Clavos, so true. I mean, I am not a political scientist. I was just using terminology as taught to the general public (in our school systems!).

Dave, you got it right with the 'code word' thing!

I'd say Doug touched on the root of many of our problems when he brought up the public school system. Take a look at the exit polls from yestaerday and the education level of those who voted for Clinton. Who knew so many high school dropouts would get up from the TV in their trailers to vote.

Does it have to be a 'science' to actually exist in reality?

No, and I never said it did. That's a rather unfair question, if I may say so. It kind of implies that, for instance, Dave Nalle is a science. (Although there has been some debate as to whether Dave does in fact exist in reality!)

The point is that a thing can't be shown to be absolutely true unless it has been submitted to the scientific method (and sometimes not even then).

As far as going off-topic, well, this is a free country grumble grumble and we can say exactly whatever the hell we damn well like grumble. If anyone's going to get upset about it, it's usually the author. Some BC writers get very pissy about such meanderings; others take a much more laissez-écrire attitude.

Sounds like Chelsea-Olympiakos is the right game to be watching right now. The other two are snooze-a-thons, from what I'm seeing.

Take a look at the exit polls from yestaerday and the education level of those who voted for Clinton. Who knew so many high school dropouts would get up from the TV in their trailers to vote.

Er.

Lumpy.

Did you happen to catch Dave's report yesterday on how many Republicans had apparently listened to Limbaugh and crossed the aisle to vote for Hillary?

Who knew so many high school dropouts would get up from the TV in their trailers to vote.

Talk about patronizing.
Clinton won white voters in general yesterday - all income brackets and education levels.
And last time I checked the vote of Warren Buffet and that of an unemployed high school dropout counted for the same.

oh dreadful, that was lovely.

Krutic. In the democrat system warren buffet or people like him would have their vote count more by attending a caucus or being picked by party insiders as a 'superdelegate'. When it come down to it the republican primary process is far more egalitarian.

Oh I agree. The Democratic party rules for primaries are that of the Soviets. People have a say - as long as they agree with the insiders.

DD: "(Although there has been some debate as to whether Dave (Nalle) does in fact exist in reality!)"

I reckon Dave's a hologram.

Dreadful (#133), yup! It is such an ethereal thing....Politics, astrology, futbol......

Where is my mind today? Oh yeah, back to soccer and preparing for th next round of the Democratic Presidential Death Match, 2008

DM

Dreadful, OK, one quick astrology thought....

FIRST OF ALL, TO KEEP THIS COMMENT ON SUBJECT, HILLARY IS A SCORPIO. THAT IS A PREFERED SIGN FOR THOSE IN A TOP MANAGEMENT (PRESIDENTIAL) POSITION. George Carlin once said, "President of the USA? The job should be handled like being a city manager"

what supports the validity of astrology is not so much 'science' but there is a preponderance of evidence.

Scientists keep looking at the stars and planets. What astrology comes down to is effect on personal character and atributes. So a realm of psychology and sociology is necessary to actually figure it out.

Who cares what it really might be. But astrologers at least use the positioning of the planets as a blueprint of what is going on.

ie: study a control group of humans in each astrological sun sign (and rising and moon, ugh! this gets complicated) and start investigating the supposed attributes of their sign(s). Then you must attempt to weed it out based on the individuals upbringing and how the astrological influences affect life influences.

so, it is weird and naturally would come under attack. For instance the big old "God" question? "gee whiz, who created this universe, etc, etc, etc...." In my book, I don't care. All I know is that we are here right now, I know that the earth and its beings are designed to exist for an eternity if we treat it right within the confines of our human (and natural) condition. I know how humanity can co-exist with each other, etc. FOR INSTANCE, WAR IS OBSOLETE IN IT'S FUNCTION!!! YET THE CROGMAG MENTALITY (and humanity in general) OF WORLD LEADERS KEEP US BEHIND IN HUMAN/NATURAL EVOLUTION AND ARE EFFECTIVELY DESTROYING ALL OF EVERYTHING. WE HAVE ADVANCE IN ABILITY TO NOT DESTROY. SO GET TO IT, PEOPLE!!!! THINK!!! IT CAN BE DONE TO KEEP UP WITH THE NATURAL PACE OF THE EXISTANCE OF LIFE. Natural selection at work. We might as well be a planet without thumbs....

OK,OK,OK. this comment is a long winded thought on the fact that Hillary Clinton's astrological sign does give her an edge in the capability of being a good USA/World leader. Her husband, Bill is a Leo. If you check into the Scorpio/Leo combination in a romantic relationship, WOW, very intense. The fact that Hillary has not walked away says a lot about her. In a good way.

She gets my vote.

OK, Dreadful, let's get back to hijacking threads with soccer/international football news. Hey, when i have the time, i should write an article on the subject for sake of us having a space we can leave 375 comments about SOCCER! That is what is important in life. The British can solve the Iraq crisis. Fly in a football/soccer team. The Brits storm Al-qiada (sp?) and defeat the enemy 6-0!!!! There is peace in the world!

best,
DM

Douglas sez: HILLARY IS A SCORPIO. THAT IS A PREFERED SIGN FOR THOSE IN A TOP MANAGEMENT (PRESIDENTIAL) POSITION.

Actually, of the 42 US presidents only five have been Scorpios, the same as the number of Aquariuses. Hot on their heels are the four Capricorns, four Pisces, four Tauruses, four Cancers and four Libras. All of the signs are represented and all of them more than once. I don't see any glaring statistical marker for Scorpio presidents.

John McCain is a Virgo (two presidents so far, a number shared with Aries and Gemini), and Barack Obama and Ron Paul are Leos (three presidents, the same number as Sagittarius). Looking at some of the candidates who've dropped out, Mitt Romney is a Pisces (four presidents, including George Washington), Mike Huckabee is another Virgo, Rudy Giuliani and John Edwards are Geminis (as was Kennedy), Bill Richardson is another Scorpio and Dennis Kucinich is a Libra (four presidents). All of which doesn't suggest anything to me except some interesting trivia to read whilst sitting on the pot and that the candidates are/were fairly evenly spread, birthday-wise.

OK, Dreadful, let's get back to hijacking threads with soccer/international football news. Hey, when i have the time, i should write an article on the subject for sake of us having a space we can leave 375 comments about SOCCER!

Wouldn't it be a terrible irony if you wrote an article about soccer and Dave, Clavos, Obnox, Baritone and the rest came along and changed the subject to politics? ;-)

The British can solve the Iraq crisis. Fly in a football/soccer team. The Brits storm Al-qiada (sp?) and defeat the enemy 6-0!!!! There is peace in the world!

Just a couple of tiny problems with that, Douglas:

1. Iraq are the current Asian champions.
2. None of the British national sides (England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland) has won a damn thing in over forty years.

We could probably beat the Iraqis, but it wouldn't be anything like 6-0!

Also, did you know that there are two pairs of presidential 'twins', i.e. sharing the same date of birth (different years, of course)?

- James Polk and Warren Harding, both born on November 2nd
- Andrew Johnson and Woodrow Wilson, both born on December 29th

Statistically, this isn't as unlikely as it sounds. In a group of 40+ people, there is a more than 90% chance that two of them will have the same birthday. There is a mathematical proof of this, which I don't pretend to follow, but I've linked to it should you care to take a look.

I love useless trivia!!!

Dread, good stats on the astrology of Presidents. Aquarius right in there. You know, that actually makes sense.

Then in the following, 4 each with Pisces and Cancer. Scorpio, Pisces and Cancer are all water signs, which simply means they are all on the same page. The Libra and Sagitarius thing makes sense also as they are signs right next to Scorpio, so they do tend to share some of the same planets.

Capricorn makes a load of sense. They are generally logic oriented folks. Bill was a Leo. So, I am not saying that astrology is the end all decision making thing, but it is a little thing to sprinkle in to the mix...afer all other points are evaluated.

Yeah, the British territories may not have done as well as they could in soccer, but they are my favorite style of play. So I use them as an example. And Premier League action I find most attractive to watch. So, that is that about that. Quit being so literal and anal. What is your sign? hehehe

OK, enuf about that,
DM

Quit being so literal and anal. What is your sign? hehehe

Guess.

Ah, no can tell. I don't know enuf to make a guess. It has nothing to do with that psychic thing. That is a whole different deal. But, that is why astrology gets disregard. It is thought of as some magical psychic thing. It is not. The psychic thing is very real also. Very few have that ability (look out for psychics at your local state fair or something, I am talking about real psychics).

I want to go play "Pinky Laundry" in soccer. See Soccer is a Bimbo Sport, blogcritics to understand that one...

Anyway, we are cool. We shall quit throwing barbs. Well, until the next blog article, hehe.

Oh yeah, vote Hillary!!! keeping the thread on subject...

best,
DM